From: saul ostrow (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Dec 04 2006 - 14:46:46 PST
and then they came for me
On Dec 4, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Jack Sargeant wrote:
> there's a great song on the new Tom waits CD ORPHANS about the
> 'road to peace', which details the absurdity of events in the
> occupied territories - suicide bombers killing ordinary people,
> governments firing rockets into refugee camps and so on. The point
> is, of course, that both sides are guilty. Boycotting Israel on a
> cultural level seems pointless, especially for frameworkers, do
> you really think you'll stop the occupation of Gaza by refusing to
> screen experimental cinema? More to the point, isn't maintaining a
> cultural discourse a way of building communities and pulling people
> together, rather than isolating them further and hence forcing them
> into entrenched positions?
>
> There is also something deeply ironic about the idea some Americans
> are calling for a cultural boycott... after all American culture -
> from McDonalds to Hollywood dominates much of the world and I
> believe that the American government is engaged in a war involving
> illegal detentions, torture, and so on. No, I'm not claiming
> exemption, the assholes who run Britain are more than happy to
> follow and back the war. The truth - in as far as there can be a
> truth - is that we should be campaigning politically to change
> things, not stamping our feet on the internet.
>
> jack
>
>
>
> On 5 Dec 2006, at 05:14, miriam jayne martins sampaio wrote:
>
>> thank you freya!
>>
>> miriam
>>
>>
>> From: Freya <email suppressed>
>> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List
>> <email suppressed>
>> To: email suppressed
>> Subject: Re: Call for a cultural boycott of Israel
>> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 09:05:49 -0800
>> >I understand what you meant Miriam, just that the
>> >phrase "no jews, no dogs" is a racist one and
>> >offensive.
>> >
>> >I think why people are confused is because the person
>> >who wrote the phrase has just thrown in with no
>> >context. You seem to have interpreted it as meaning
>> >the person is writing that to say that they agree with
>> >the boycott and have gone further to say "Yes I agree
>> >with the boycott, we want "no jews, no dogs"
>> >
>> >However...
>> >
>> >When I read it, I thought they might be commenting on
>> >the boycott, that the boycott is to exclude jewish
>> >people and that it can be summarised as "no jews, no
>> >dogs". That the boycott is saying the same thing and
>> >that it is racist.
>> >
>> >The slogan was just thrown in there, so we have no way
>> >of knowing what they mean by it and obviously theres
>> >no point asking you Miriam, as you didn't write it!
>> >
>> >love
>> >
>> >Freya
>> >
>> >--- miriam jayne martins sampaio
>> ><email suppressed> wrote:
>> >
>> > > hi shelly
>> > > i was only responding to the slogan that was saying
>> > > no jews and dogs. there
>> > > was a call for cultural boycott, right...and the
>> > > next email was the german
>> > > slogan. i am certainly not a zionist and shall never
>> > > be but i was quite hurt
>> > > with that email! there is the idea that all jews are
>> > > responsible for what
>> > > the israeli government is doing and dealing with
>> > > backlash!! hence one jew
>> > > commits a crime all jews pay for it....one black man
>> > > commits a crime all
>> > > blacks pay for it. do you understand what i mean
>> > > now....i hope so. i dont
>> > > know whether this boycott is a good idea or not
>> > > ....i certainly understand
>> > > it. i have had to deal with so much racism because
>> > > of being a jew and of
>> > > color. i have had the shit kicked out of me by a
>> > > bunch of skin heads saying
>> > > that they thought we burned you all.....
>> > > i hope all is cleared up.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >From: shelly silver <email suppressed>
>> > > >Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List
>> > > <email suppressed>
>> > > >To: email suppressed
>> > > >Subject: Re: Call for a cultural boycott of Israel
>> > > >Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:45:45 -0500
>> > > >
>> > > >i know and understood the slogan, but i am still
>> > > completely confused by
>> > > >what you are trying to say. could you clarify?
>> > > >
>> > > >>HELLO! obviously there are people who
>> > > misunderstand why i said what i
>> > > >>said!!..fighting racism with racism!...
>> > > >>
>> > > >>i am glad people are able to read instead of
>> > > reacting quickly!!! i was
>> > > >>refering to the german slogan ...hence no jews and
>> > > dogs! NOT THE BOYCOTT
>> > > >>OBVIOUSLY!!!
>> > > >>
>> > > >>>From: Chuck Kleinhans <email suppressed>
>> > > >>>Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List
>> > > <email suppressed>
>> > > >>>To: email suppressed
>> > > >>>Subject: Re: Call for a cultural boycott of
>> > > Israel
>> > > >>>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 06:46:00 -0600
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>On Dec 4, 2006, at 5:53 AM, miriam jayne martins
>> > > sampaio wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>>fight racism with racism!? great tactic!!!
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>I don't see how there is anything racist about
>> > > individuals choosing to
>> > > >>>boycott because they object to the the state
>> > > policies of a specific
>> > > >>>government. The cultural boycott was a tactic
>> > > used in the struggle
>> > > >>>against the apartheid regime in South Africa.
>> > > Unless you can actually
>> > > >>>explain your slogan, you seem to be the one who
>> > > is cheerleading, not
>> > > >>>participating in dialogue.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>Chuck Kleinhans
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > >
>> >
>> >>>__________________________________________________________________
>> > > >>>For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> > > <email suppressed>.
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > >>_________________________________________________________________
>> > > >>Not only does WindowsOff to school, going on a
>> > > trip, or moving? Windows
>> > > >>Live (MSN) Messenger lets you stay in touch with
>> > > friends and family
>> > > >>wherever you go. Click here to find out how to
>> > > sign up! Live™ OneCare™
>> > > >>provide all-in-one PC care to keep your computer
>> > > protected and
>> > > >>well-maintained, but it also makes creating backup
>> > > files a breeze. Try it
>> > > >>today! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> >>__________________________________________________________________
>> > > >>For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> > > <email suppressed>.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >__________________________________________________________________
>> > > >For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> > > <email suppressed>.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> > > Not only does WindowsOff to school, going on a trip,
>> > > or moving? Windows Live
>> > > (MSN) Messenger lets you stay in touch with friends
>> > > and family wherever you
>> > > go. Click here to find out how to sign up! Live™
>> > > OneCare™ provide
>> > > all-in-one PC care to keep your computer protected
>> > > and well-maintained, but
>> > > it also makes creating backup files a breeze. Try it
>> > > today!
>> > > http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >__________________________________________________________________
>> > > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> > > <email suppressed>.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >____________________________________________________________________
>> ________________
>> >Have a burning question?
>> >Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who
>> know.
>> >
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________________________
>> >For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>
>> Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN)
>> Messenger lets you stay in touch with friends and family wherever
>> you go. Click here to find out how to sign up!
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.