From: Freya (email suppressed)
Date: Wed Jun 11 2008 - 10:11:09 PDT
I havn't seen the rare Hollis Frampton film yet but it
definitely is good that these things are more
accesible. That's why I'm really sad that ubuweb have
been so mean spirited to people who have requested to
have their work removed when they have suggested that
is what artists should do.
I really wish they had kept to their original
expressed intentions, as that seemed much more
positive.
It just seems like an awful way to have gone about
things. I can understand wanting to promote creative
commons and I think maybe they should have made more
of an effort to do that rather than to cast scorn and
shame upon artists who had not chosen that path.
I feel especially sad because as I said earlier, I
really liked a lot of the really positive things about
ubuweb and in some ways it's become more and more one
of my only outlets to see these kind of works.
I also agree that it's great to let people see these
works for free. Although I wasn't really talking about
ubuweb or anything in this thread, just the way people
are refering to copyrighted works as if they were
property which they aren't. If anything they are owned
by everyone.
It was a bit of an aside from the ubu thing.
love
Freya
--- "email suppressed"
<email suppressed> wrote:
> Freya - isn't it good to see that rare Hollis
> Frampton film etc? all
> this stuff you have only ever read about?
> Jonas Mekas talked about the need to let people see
> things for free to
> let the world see! It expands the cause! It goes
> beyond money!
>
> best wishes
>
> greg
> >----Original Message----
> >From: email suppressed
> >Date: 11/06/2008 10:46
> >To: <email suppressed>
> >Subj: Re: The Politics of the Bootleg. COPYRIGHT IS
> NOT PROPERTY
> >
> >Much of the recent threads on here are mired in
> >misconceptions of what copyright is and in ideas of
> >copyright as property.
> >
> >Copyright is NOT property.
> >
> >It is insulting to compare the ideas behined
> copyright
> >as being akin to stealing a can of coke or some
> >petrol. Copyrights are exactly what they sound
> like,
> >the rights to copy a work (in whole or in part!).
> When
> >you copy something illegally you aren't just
> stealing
> >off someone, you are infringing on their rights.
> >
> >The idea of intelectual property is one very much
> tied
> >up in corpoations. Corporations want to OWN the
> ideas
> >and concepts and thus keep trying to shift
> copyright
> >further and further in that direction. They have
> >created the idea of copyright as property to this
> end.
> > They do not OWN the ideas, only the rights to
> >reproduce the ideas and they want to change that.
> >
> >Please, please do not dumb down the idea of
> copyright
> >by talking of it in terms of property. It may seem
> >more easy to understand in that way given the kind
> of
> >society we presently live in but in speaking about
> it
> >in this way you are changing the whole idea of
> >copyright and are destroying meaning of it and it
> is
> >an idea that has been damaged enough already.
> >
> >Copyright is a wonderful thing. It is a right given
> to
> >artists and other creators to try and protect them
> >from unscrupulous companies who just wish to
> exploit
> >them. It is the right which makes such things as
> gnu
> >and creative commons possible. It is a right that
> >helps protect the free flow of ideas and protects
> us
> >from the domination of ideas by the corporations
> (at
> >least to some extent)
> >
> >Corporations wish to destroy copyright because they
> >wish to own the ideas, wholly and forever, in the
> way
> >that they might own a building or some other asset.
> >
> >Please do not help them towards that goal.
> >
> >love
> >
> >Freya
> >
> >
> >--- Jorge Amaro <email suppressed> wrote:
> >
> >> Could Bruce Conner made A Movie having that in
> mind?
> >> Could dozens of
> >> found footage film makers have done anything at
> all?
> >> The concept of
> >> property is somehow confusing for me. The idea of
> >> nullify the found
> >> footage films I love so much over a concept of
> >> property is weird. And
> >> no one will think that a videotaped event from
> some
> >> museum or
> >> screening will substitute the film, and i think
> what
> >> matters is that
> >> people see the work, isnt it for that reason
> people
> >> make them in the
> >> first place? If they made it over an idea of
> >> property they could close
> >> it in drawer and throw away key, that alone is
> the
> >> only option if you
> >> dont want to see copies of your work.
> >>
> >> j.
> >>
> >> 2008/6/11 James Cole <email suppressed>:
> >> >> That's like saying a
> >> >> postcard of the Mona Lisa is the intellectual
> >> property of Leonardo.
> >> >
> >> > Is that really such an absurd idea? I mean, it
> >> seems pretty clear
> >> > that, were Leonardo alive, it would be his
> >> property. Certainly you
> >> > can't be in favor of the postcard manufacturer
> >> being able to make
> >> > profits off of the Mona Lisa while Da Vinci has
> no
> >> say whatsoever.
> >> >
> >> > If it wasn't ubuweb that was using it (an
> >> organization which is
> >> > ostensibly in favor of avant-garde film), would
> >> people really be so
> >> > allowing? If ubu can show a clip recorded off
> of
> >> a monitor, then can
> >> > the US Army use the same clip in recruiting
> >> videos? Can McDonalds use
> >> > it to sell burgers?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
> >> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> >> <email suppressed>.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> >> <email suppressed>.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________________
> >For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
>
> New Online ID Theft Protection -
> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/spyguard
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.