From: Jorge Amaro (email suppressed)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2008 - 14:27:02 PDT
Well, the dvd's and vhs i see for sale on canyon are very overpriced
compared to the dvd's amazon sells. I never came accross a single
person that was happy with seeing the version of Fuses on UBU. It has
a low resolution was badly transcoded and probably from some bootleg
that is totally messed up. If there was a retail version i would
gladly buy it, and i'm very sure other people would aswell. I dont
know the numbers of microcinema or re-voir but i'm pretty sure they
sell, otherwise they would be out of business and if you search hard
enough you'll find most of the stuff they released on the internet for
viewing and downloading.
Hasn't the rentals in the last 20 years being decreasing any way?
There was the big boom of experimental cinema in the 70's and I
believe after that it just started to decrease, a lot and has been
going downhill ever since. I might be wrong though.
How to reach young people with experimental cinema? I dont attend much
screenings due to me geographical location, but thew few i do attend
is mostly older people (more than 50), what will happen when that
generation dies? Will exp. fall on to oblivion, like so many films
already are? I do not hold the answers to anything, but i honestly
dont believe that UBU or the internet has naything to do with the
decrease of rentals.
2008/6/15 DOMINIC ANGERAME <email suppressed>:
> Hi Jorge...please regard my other post.....YES YES
> YES......posting of films on UBU, youtube, and the
> rest HAS HAS, yes HAS decreased rentals and demands
> for people to see these works in other ways....
> .......it has impacted the entire field......in a
> negative way.....and if it continues the field will
> not be able to be plowed......I cannot be more
> clear.....thanks
>
> Dominic
> --- Jorge Amaro <email suppressed> wrote:
>
>> Dominic,
>>
>> If you dont mind me asking, do you think that UBU or
>> other such places
>> affected the booking of prints on canyon cinema? How
>> as the booking
>> being since the beggining of this decade? As it
>> declined in any way?
>>
>> 2008/6/15 DOMINIC ANGERAME
>> <email suppressed>:
>> > As a ps......I believe it was me that wrote to UBU
>> > some time ago asking that they remove Bruce
>> Conner,
>> > Peter Kubelka, and other filmmakers whom I knew
>> only
>> > had thier work with Canyon Cinema and had no
>> desire,
>> > intention, or inclination to digitize their work
>> and
>> > present it to the public that way....for either
>> > preview or exhibition purposes......they do not
>> need
>> > to pad their resumes and add another lecture tour
>> at
>> > least no thru UBU
>> >
>> > Dominic Angerame
>> > Canyon Cinema
>> > --- Zev Robinson <email suppressed> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> > I'd like to question thebasic assumption that
>> Joel
>> > started off with, not saying that he'sentirely
>> wrong,
>> > but just that it is not that it is not as simple
>> as
>> > hestated, nor is it necessarily one side or the
>> other.
>> >
>> >
>> > Is it really bad forbusiness?
>> >
>> > Are there any stats on claims of a loss of
>> revenue?
>> > Are thoseartists who become better know because of
>> > internet (ubuweb, utube, p2p)more or less likely
>> to
>> > increase sales of dvds or cds?
>> >
>> > Are their overallearnings more or less likely to
>> > increase via lectures, commissions,teaching
>> > opportunities, screening fees, purchases by
>> > institutions, andotheropportunities?
>> >
>> > On the whole, does ubu increase the popularityand
>> > renown of the artists on the site, and thus
>> increase
>> > sales? ordoesn't it? And how many people _do_ buy
>> a
>> > dvd because they first sawit on ubu and decide
>> that
>> > they want a better quality copy? Just
>> becausesomeone
>> > does see something on Ubu or utube, it doesn't
>> > necessarily meanthat they would purchase a dvd if
>> it
>> > were not available. Nor doesseeing something on
>> Ubu
>> > mean that someone won't buy a dvd to view on
>> alarger
>> > screen and with better quality.
>> >
>> > I noticed that there are some links to re:voir to
>> > purchase the dvd ifone wishes to.
>> >
>> > I recently read that obscurity is a much
>> greaterdanger
>> > to artists than file sharing. There are many
>> articles
>> > anddebates out there on the complexity the
>> > relationship between filesharing and sales and the
>> > overall earnings of bands and how often itmeans an
>> > increase in revenues. My feeling is that Ubu
>> provides
>> > aservice where people can see a copy or
>> reproduction,
>> > quality issuesaside, of things that they may
>> otherwise
>> > not see or know about, andthat broadly, enhances
>> and
>> > disseminates an alternative culture, andthat can
>> only
>> > be good for artists.
>> >
>> > Zev
>> >
>> > Zev Robinson
>> > www.artafterscience.com
>> > www.zrdesign.co.uk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Joel S Bachar wrote:
>> > Dear Frameworkers and Directors of the Board of
>> > UbuWeb:We would like to address some serious
>> concerns
>> > of ours and theartists/labels/distributors we
>> > represent in regards to the practices ofUbuWeb,
>> and
>> > some of the opinions posted about it on this
>> > Listserv.The recent threads have shifted to the
>> > quality of online viewing which wewould not like
>> to
>> > address here as this is another issue.We feel that
>> > some of UbuWeb's practices are illegal and
>> unethical
>> > and weintend to make every effort to protect our
>> > business and the property of ourcompany and/or the
>> > artists and company's we represent should we see
>> > suchpractices occurring.Let's begin by quoting a
>> > question direct from the UbuWeb's FAQ:Q: "Can I
>> use
>> > something posted on UbuWeb on my site, in a paper,
>> in
>> > aproject, etc.?"A: Sure. We post many things
>> without
>> > permission; we also post many withthings with
>> > permission. We therefore give you permission to
>> take
>> > what youlike even though in many cases, we have no
>> > received permission to post it.We went ahead and
>> did
>> > it anyway. You should too. Source:
>> > http://www.ubuweb.com/resources/faq.html#4 It is
>> > unfathomable to us that the Board of Directors as
>> well
>> > as the variousPartners of UbuWeb, including the
>> > institutions that fund and support thiswebsite,
>> find
>> > this an acceptable practice! This has nothing to
>> do
>> > withCreative Commons or Copyleft or Fair Use -
>> this is
>> > outright infringement ofcopyright and theft and
>> this
>> > type of practice is a direct threat to ourbusiness
>> and
>> > livelihood and thus the livelhood of the hundreds
>> of
>> > artists werepresent.One direct example are the
>> films
>> > of Maya Deren. We are the exclusive NorthAmerican
>> DVD
>> > distributor of her collected films and the film
>> The
>> > DivineHorsemen, through an agreement with the
>> label,
>> > Mystic Fire Video. MysticFire has been informed of
>> > this and is not in agreement with these filmsbeing
>> > made available on UbuWeb.Other infractions have
>> been
>> > found in relation to the short films of Man Rayand
>> Un
>> > Chien Andalou. In all of these cases, these films
>> are
>> > readilyavailable on DVD for reasonable prices -
>> both
>> > for retail and EducationalPPR. In addition our
>> > company as well as many other are spending time,
>> > moneyand resources to develop quality streaming
>> > solutions for these importantfilms. We agree with
>> > UbuWeb's lamentation that many works are only
>> > availablethrough distribution via prohibitive
>> pricing
>> > but we do not agree that theanswer is to simply
>> flout
>> > the system. This ignores the fact that
>> > manydistributors are adjusting the changing
>> > marketplace and other new entrantare developing
>> new
>> > ways to do legal business.We have every intention
>> of
>> > doing a thorough search on an ongoing basis
>> ofUbuWeb
>> > for any film (s) that we distribute and we
>> encourage
>> > others to do soand take the appropriate action -
>> which
>> > is to have these films taken offunless proper
>> > permissions are given. In addition - the
>> Presidents
>> > of theUniversities where the UbuWeb Board Members
>> work
>> > and their respectiveGeneral Counsels should be
>> made
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.