From: Myron Ort (email suppressed)
Date: Wed Jul 30 2008 - 10:21:50 PDT
I too have often experienced these vivid and somewhat persistent
after images and have been known to sit up and yell loudly at the
apparitions, blink a few times, until they finally go away or become
awake enough to realize they are not "real", or, if I happen to like
them, attempt going back to sleep in order to continue, but alas,
the dream is never the same after that.
btw, last night, in a typical "trying to get back home" dream, being
lost in a familiar environment which has turned incomprehensibly more
complicated and unfamiliar than I had ever remembered it, I realized
it had become very late and I was tired, so I found a bed and went to
sleep, in the dream. Unfortunately there was a series of
interruptions to my sleeping ( in my dream), and didn't have a chance
to dream while sleeping in my dream. Maybe next time.
It seems that dreaming that one is tired and going to sleep in a
dream goes to the very mechanism of why we dream.
btw, Anyone ever see countdown leader in a dream? Did it include the
"muse" figure?
Myron Ort
On Jul 30, 2008, at 8:10 AM, DOMINIC ANGERAME wrote:
> Hi Marilyn.....I have had similar experiences when I
> am either sleep deprived or extremely exhausted. I can
> close my eyes, yet see through my eyelids. It is like
> seeing through a mask....I can see my room and
> everything in it....it is a very strange
> experience....for whatever it is worth...I though I
> would share that...
>
> Dominic
> --- Marilyn Brakhage <email suppressed> wrote:
>
>> These are interesting questions. But has no one
>> here ever experienced
>> an after-image of a dream image? I have. The brief
>> retention of
>> optical stimulation that results in a visual
>> after-image when we look
>> at a bright object, for example, is, I think, a
>> fairly well-known and
>> well-understood phenomenon -- a sort of brief
>> persistence of vision.
>> What is interesting is that when awaking from a
>> dream (eyes still
>> closed), I have more than once experienced a similar
>> "picture" in
>> closed-eye vision of what I was last "seeing" in my
>> dream. This would
>> suggest that images are formed not only by optical
>> stimulation being
>> interpreted by brain, but also by brain activity
>> stimulating same
>> optical nerves -- in other words, in reverse. Also,
>> when people are
>> extremely sleep-deprived, they can begin to
>> hallucinate, right? --
>> basically dreaming while 'awake'; "seeing" things
>> that are not there.
>> So I think images in dreams do involve both memory
>> and optics -- and
>> that the content is not just "post-production" as
>> Saul would have it
>> (thought there does seem to be a certain randomness
>> to dreams, and
>> obviously we do constantly select and interpret
>> amongst everything we
>> hear, see, think, etc., and so undoubtedly do this
>> in response to our
>> dreams as well.) . . . But as far as images are
>> concerned, what seems
>> to me harder to grasp is an image in thought (while
>> awake). For
>> example, if you right now bring to mind a friend's
>> face, in what sense
>> are you "seeing" it? . . . Some similar optical
>> memory process, I
>> guess, but entirely elusive.
>>
>> Marilyn Brakhage
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 20, 2008, at 03:21 AM,
>> email suppressed wrote:
>>
>>> good point - it aint no "image", surely, rather, a
>> cluster of
>>> sensations ?
>>> Wouldn't people say that an "image" is just a tag
>> of language to
>>> relate that kind of sensation?
>>>
>>>> ----Original Message----
>>>> From: email suppressed
>>>> Date: 20/07/2008 3:25
>>>> To: <email suppressed>
>>>> Subj: Re: Nightmare!
>>>>
>>>> But what, exactly, is an "image" in a dream?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat Jul 19 22:10 , Jim Carlile
>> <email suppressed> sent:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 7/19/2008 6:26:07 P.M.
>> Pacific Daylight Time,
>>>>> email suppressed writes:
>>>>> This is
>>>>> bullcrap. Nobody has "nightmares" in which they
>> are
>>>>>> frightened
>>>>> because
>>>>>> they are having dreams. Nobody dreams about
>> having dreams
>>>>> about
>>>>>> anything, let
>>>>>> alone the parts they cut
>>>>> out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Au contraire-- many dreams include some image
>> where you have a
>>> dream--
>>>>> sometimes that very same dream.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Get fantasy football with free live scoring.
>> Sign up for FanHouse
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>>>>>
>>
> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tony Conrad 716-400-8738
>>>>
>>>> Department of Media Study, Center for the Arts
>> 231, University at
>>> Buffalo 14260
>>>>
>>>> 190 Bedford Av, Ste 126
>>>> Brklyn NY 11211
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> __________________________________________________________
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> __________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>
> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> <email suppressed>.
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
__________________________________________________________________
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