Re: FramWorks, Obama, Satantango, politics, etc.

From: Zev Robinson (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Sep 08 2008 - 04:30:27 PDT

There are supposed to be rules about this list - http://www.hi-beam.net/fw.html

Frameworks is "an international forum on experimental film, avant-garde film, film as art, film as film, or film as visual poetry; film's expressive qualities, aside from or in addition to its storytelling capacity. Any genre of experimental film, such as film diary, found footage, abstract, flicker, lyric, subversive, expanded, etc., can be discussed, as well as those films which fall into the cracks between the genres, or those not covered by other lists.

"All aspects, from filmmaking to criticism, are acceptable in this context, including unipersonal production, techniques, history and esthetics of avant-garde film, critical discussions, new directions, courses and teaching, festivals, announcements of world-wide events in film, retrospectives, exchanges of information, etc. This list is not intended for the discussion of narrative film, nor documentary film, nor video, nor video art."

So by extension - nor US elections, I would suppose. Art and power have had a long relationship, interesting in itself, but outside of experimental film's relationship to politics, one should attempt to respect the scope of a list. Personally, I'm not bothered much cos I have my delete button, but it is a sign of courtesy.

Zev Robinson
www.artafterscience.com
www.zrdesign.co.uk




Flores-Gutiérrez wrote: 
Hello Fred,


  
I think everyone on this 
list knows who Obama is, and, being on the Internet, knows how to find 
out more about him if they want to. We don't need to be told to support 
him, or to not support him, or to buy Obama buttons! If everyone on this 
list posted about everything that interested them, we would all be 
overwhelmed.
    

I insist that the buttons are free of charge, I'm not sure why people write that they have to buy them.  I don't mean to suggest that people in this list don't know who Barak Obama is.  I don't mean to suggest that you need to support him, or even assume you would.  I think you're right, if everyone posted whatever  interested them, it would be overwhelming.  I guess the only good thing about elections is that they happen every four years.  Ok, let's change the topic.  I really like that you took the time to respond.  I appreciate the message about "rudeness", yes, we have to remember to write to connect and non-violent communication.  It's terribly hard!  

Good night,

Beatriz
  






-----Original Message-----
From: Experimental Film Discussion List on behalf of Fred Camper
Sent: Fri 9/5/2008 10:44 AM
To: (address suppressed)
Subject: FramWorks, Obama, Satantango, politics, etc.
 
One reason many people stop reading FrameWorks, either for long periods 
of time (as I have) or permanently, is that so many posts that be fine 
if exchanged between a few friends are just RUDE when sent to 700 people 
located all over the world.

Of course politics is relevant to film. But I think everyone on this 
list knows who Obama is, and, being on the Internet, knows how to find 
out more about him if they want to. We don't need to be told to support 
him, or to not support him, or to buy Obama buttons! If everyone on this 
list posted about everything that interested them, we would all be 
overwhelmed.

I prefer to read decently written posts that are well informed. Having 
seen "Satantango" twice, complete, and on film, I don't need to read a 
post from someone who has seen an hour or so of it on video. What's 
great about FrameWorks is that so many people here have specialized 
knowledge of various aspects of experimental cinema. What wrecks the 
list is people posting opinions about topics they don't know much about, 
plus personal trivia. If everyone remembered that a FrameWorks post goes 
to 700 people all over the world, and composed it accordingly, rather 
than treating the list as a chat group and writing personal messages and 
random details about one's life and thoughts, the group would once again 
be as useful as it was in its early years. I joined in 1996, and at 
first, I tried to read every post. Now I don't bother.

Fred Camper
Chicago


__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)>.



__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)>.

__________________________________________________________________ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)>.