From: Freya (email suppressed)
Date: Tue Dec 09 2008 - 06:27:13 PST
I just watched the 60 minutes interview and I'm inclined to agree with Victoria. I came across lots of vitriolic text towards Mr Schnabel, a lot of it mocking him for not being thick skinned but I don't see that being thick skinned is neccesarily a virtue. I did find the interview to be a bit of a giggle but not for the same reason others seem to be enjoying it! In fact this was the bit of the interview that made me like Mr Schnabel the most, it made him seem like more of a real person. I suspect Mr Schnabel suffers from some "looping anger" (perhaps better named looping hurt) over the issue and that the interviwer had heard this and was hoping to set him off with the magic keyword and maybe even to get him to tell "the story"
or something. It's preety familiar stuff, which is where the humour is for me but it makes me feel more like Mr schnabel needs a hug rather than more vitriol.
The interviwer and programme makers seemed very manipulative OTOH, and were putting a load of spin on the whole thing. Perhaps they were worried it might make them look bad or maybe they just wanted to make it a little bit intresting.
I do also wonder whether the Brakhage influences might be more attributable to Kaminski rather than Mr Schnabel. I've seen neither creation or diving bell so I'd love to hear what people mean by this. I know that Kaminski has been making much about playing with the lens baby on this film but I guess you are all talking about something else? Perhaps the editing and the use of landscape?
I can't entirely imagine that Mr Schnabel is a fan of brakhage as he seemed to have very different concerns and be drawn more to the history of narrative film, going by the interview. He seemed to have very traditional and conventional influences but who knows?
So what do the two films have in common?
love
Freya
--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Myron Ort <email suppressed> wrote:
> From: Myron Ort <email suppressed>
> Subject: Re: Julian $chnabel (ok...I too am enviou$)
> To: email suppressed
> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 3:32 AM
> Now that you mention it, I think maybe you are right. I am
> not sure I would be any better taking
> "criticism" the way Safer brought up a known
> negative ringer like that. (The critic Hughes did not even
> "see" what the real Basquat was doing! -- calling
> him the worst painter to Schabel's second worst --
> Hughes, imo, another jerk in all likelihood). Schnabel
> faired much better when he was interviewed along with David
> Bowie by Charlie Rose who actually knows his stuff across
> many areas. This was back when Schnabel had made
> "Basquiat" and in it Bowie had played Warhol.
> Incidentally, in that interview, Bowie was the one who came
> across with a rather surprisingly deeper aesthetic knowledge
> than the painter turned director, imo. But in any case, it
> shows how a good interviewer like Rose can bring out the
> best, and, as you say, in the end, Safer was a network jerk
> by comparison, and Julian may have been correct saying that
> the ploy was "lazy" on the part of Safer. But it
> was amusing how Schnabel couldn't let it go....I
> probably would have behaved the same though if a supposedly
> "friendly" interviewer brought up a known nemesis
> like that.
>
> It is easy to be annoyed by this artist's somewhat
> overblown sukce$$, but more power to him....it enabled him
> to make movies, and to even make one that has been called
> (again by all too clever critics) "Brakhage for
> dummies" for using a smattering of the maestro's
> camera techniques (approximately) in the service of
> narrative, which, as we know, is typical of cinema these
> last few decades especially, however in this case, having
> chosen Brakhage, instead of just "fast cutting" or
> a light show dazzle ala Belson etc. , and having stayed on
> the techniques for a rather extended section. Really
> extended! Friends assumed I would really like
> "Butterfly" immensely, but I had to overcome
> resistance to seeing this type of camera used in that way
> and I am still not totally comfortable with some kind of
> assumption that Schnabel seems to have made
> "utilizing" that vocabulary so uninhibitedly .
> That is why I wondered if he, Schnabel, ever mentioned
> anything about seeing Brakhage films. I guess what annoys
> me, and what is difficult to explain to friends who assume I
> would be so impressed, is that there is, ever so subtly, the
> suggestion that this "first person cinematic vocabulary
> (so elegantly, uniquely, and miraculously innovated by Stan)
> is now somehow more "justified" because a bit of
> it is in the service of an otherwise "normal"
> narrative film. I don't know. Talk me down. Am I being
> too cranky?
>
> So is Schnabel now an "experimental" filmmaker as
> well as being independent and avant garde etc.?
> (at least he's not "underground".....yet.)
>
> Myron Ort
>
> (ps. in my aesthetic arrogance "(in the eye of the
> beholder...") seemed to me Basquiat often could
> "organize space and color" quite well, I have yet
> to see this in Schnabel's work....but that is just my
> own taste. {eg. remember the Hoyt Sherman link etc.)
>
> hmmmm....I am in deep doo doo now......
>
> {we are just talking here..... right....?}
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2008, at 3:16 PM, V Wolfe wrote:
>
> > The interviewer is the one who comes across like a
> jerk. I especially like where he asks Schnabel
> > if he was a 'doper' because the artist mention
> marijuana. What an idiotic inteview. Kudos to
> > Schnabel for getting through it. I'm sure it was
> extremely irritating, and in order to do the publicity
> > for his films he had to put up with a lot of
> stupidity. Anyone who has tried to live as a professional
> > artist in NYC knows how difficult that is. I give
> this guy a lot of credit. He even changed forms, which
> > most people only dream about. I think Safer was
> jealous.
> >
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >> From: jason livingston
> <email suppressed>
> >> Date: December 8, 2008 7:27:21 AM PST
> >> To: email suppressed
> >> Subject: Re: Schnabel
> >> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List
> <email suppressed>
> >>
> >> I liked the film quite a bit, though Schnabel can
> come across as a bit of a blowhard. Definitely seemed like
> Kaminski had borrowed some of the blue-brown ice melts from
> Brakhage's Creation.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jason
> >> Ithaca, NY
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://jasontlivingston.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:45 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
> >>
> >>> Happen to see a repeat interview on 60
> minutes. Why does this guy annoy me so much?....ooops, never
> mind. But I am curious, did he ever, in public or in print,
> acknowledge, mention, or otherwise credit Stan Brakhage, in
> any way, after he made that "acclaimed" Diving
> Bell Butterfly movie of his? Or are we just as glad he
> didn't?
> >>>
> >>> Myron Ort
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov
> at <email suppressed>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.