From: JEFFREY PAULL (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Apr 27 2009 - 15:33:12 PDT
If you can have music without having to look at something,
then shouldn't visual music include movies (etc.) where there is nothing to listen to?
Besides those presentations with something to see as well as something to hear.
JP
On Mon 27/04/09 14:26 , Myron Ort email suppressed sent:
> I think that the prevailing definition(s) seem(s) to be:
>
>
>
> 1. Abstract films which need a soundtrack. "Abstract" films which
>
> may not really "work" presented silent.
>
>
>
> for example I just saw Lapis by Whitney, and the presenter stated
>
> that it was originally silent but the distributor thought it needed a
>
> soundtrack and thus added an Indian raga. I don't think the "montage"
>
> in the film would have been as acceptable without the masking of
>
> sound and it happened that there were enough coincidences between
>
> some changes in the music and the images to seem "intentional" and
>
> the assumption was that this added sound made it "more entertaining".
>
> Personally I wished they had left it silent. Either way I believe
>
> the "transitions" (dissolves) between sequences would draw
>
> attention to themselves, to me they were not, and should have been,
>
> more "seamless", given the mechanical perfection of this kind of
>
> imagery, or perhaps separated by pauses (and then better left
>
> silent). I do however appreciate the pioneering aspects of the film's
>
> historical context.
>
>
>
> As opposed to a "silent" film by Stan Brakhage with its "silent
>
> sound sense", which clearly does not need a soundtrack since the
>
> totality of "montage" , movement, visual rhythms, etc. is "musical"
>
> in a sense.
>
>
>
> 2. Abstract films in which there is a clear "programmatic"
>
> relationship between images and sounds. Off On, 7362 etc. As opposed
>
> to films (abstract or otherwise) that use Cocteau's aesthetic of
>
> preferring the fortuitous alignments of music and image. (ever notice
>
> how almost any music or sound works more or less with any film?...)
>
>
>
> 3. Abstract films (animation etc.) in which the images were composed
>
> specifically and obviously (programmatically) to an existing piece
>
> of music, ala Disney's Fantasia.
>
>
>
> 4. Any abstract film or abstract animation with a musical soundtrack.
>
>
>
> 5. Abstract films whose timing fits the timing of music, whose
>
> duration, say, is reigned in by the constraints of the musical
>
> composition accompanying it, the film in a sense is an accompaniment
>
> to the musical composition.
>
>
>
> 6. Short abstract films or animations with accompanying music
>
> designed to hold audience interest in the manner of a musical
>
> performance.
>
>
>
> To me, in spite of the general notion of this term to describe the
>
> works of Fischinger etc., I think it unfortunate that the term
>
> "visual music" is not better used to describe films like Brakhage's
>
> silent films which illustrate his notion of "the silent sound sense",
>
> because the term "visual music" would be a convenient shorthand for
>
> the mini lecture I have to give every time I might present a work of
>
> mine or of Brakhage that is silent by design and preference, the
>
> "rhythms" of which hold up on their own with a musical sense and
>
> which might be unnecessarily ponderous with any added music
>
> composed, fortuitious, random or otherwise.....etc.
>
>
>
> I am aware, however, that there is some controversy surrounding this
>
> notion:
>
>
>
> http://www.horschamp.qc.ca/new_offscreen/silent_legacy.html
>
>
> " The idea of film as music, however, still suffers from the legacy
>
> of understanding music, and sound for that matter, on purely auditory
>
> terms. This is clearly demonstrated by Peter Kivy, who begins a
>
> highly sophisticated inquiry into the nature of the musical
>
> experience by trying to come to terms with why there has not been a
>
> �purely visual music� to compare with the great masterpieces of
>
> Western composition for the ears. He suggests that despite the wealth
>
> of experimentation with �totally abstract, non-representational
>
> sequences of patterns and colors that can fairly be described as
>
> �music for the eyes��[this] visual music has been unable to sustain
>
> itself to any significant length, at least in terms of the normal
>
> viewer (not the fanatic)� (Kivy 1990:2). Granted, many of Brakhage�s
>
> greatest fans might fall into the category of �fanatic,� but I
>
> digress. Kivy continues:
>
>
>
> A person of no particular musical expertise, with only limited
>
> musical enthusiasms, can listen, with more or less rapt attention, to
>
> a concert of chamber music that may last for two hours. Nothing even
>
> approaching this attention span seems possible for visual music. Why
>
> is this? (Kivy 1990:2)"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Myron Ort
>
>
>
> www.zeno-okeanos.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Freya wrote:
>
>
>
> > That definition would appear to exclude visual music
> works that
> > contain no sound however! :)
>
> >
>
> > love
>
> >
>
> > Freya
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- On Mon, 4/27/09, Leo Cardoso le
> email suppressed> wrote:
> >
>
> >> From: Leo Cardoso le
> email suppressed>
> >> Subject: Re: Vienna shows
>
> >> To: F
> email suppressed
> >> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 10:59 AM
>
> >> It seems to me that, in its broadest
>
> >> sense, visual music is a audiovisual work that is
>
> >>
>
> >> (1) created by using some kind of compositional link
>
> >> between aural and visual events - thus exploring the
>
> >> synesthetic field
>
> >>
>
> >> (2) performed as something that integrates
> aural/visual
> >> gestures
>
> >> (3) perceived as something that integrates
> aural/visual
> >> gestures
>
> >>
>
> >> Visual music has also been used in the last decades to
> mean
> >> an audiovisual work associated with artists such as
> Oskar
> >> Fischinger, Mary Ellen Bute, John Whitney, and Larry
> Cuba.
> >> It usually uses 'abstract' visual forms and various
>
> >> music genres (including Western Classical music and
> Indian
> >> Classical music). It is this specific artistic field
> that
> >> I'm most interested in.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Please let me know if you think visual music is
> actually
> >> something else, or if you have contancts (or any info)
> that
> >> might be useful for my research.
>
> >>
>
> >> Best,
>
> >>
>
> >> Leo
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:24 PM,
>
> >> Simonetta s
> email suppressed>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> I was going to ask the same
>
> >> question. What do you mean by "visual music?" I am
>
> >> personally interested in the film-music dialectic and
> I also
> >> know other graduate students involved in this kind of
> work.
> >> More specifics would be helpful to have a better sense
> of
> >> what you are looking for.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Thanks,Simonetta
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:05 PM,
>
> >> Myron Ort email suppressed
> >
> >> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> What is the definition of "visual music"?
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Myron Ort
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Apr 26, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Leonardo Cardoso wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Dear frameworkers,
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I'm a graduate student in ethnomusicology, and would
>
> >> like to get in touch with people interested in visual
>
> >> music.
>
> >>
>
> >> My research project focuses on the visual music scene
> in
> >> LA, and I'm expecting to talk with as many people as I
>
> >> can (not only from US) as a means to consider
> different
> >> perspectives on visual music.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I'm planning to spend this summer in LA to attend
>
> >> performances and do some fieldwork there.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I'd appreciate any suggestion of places to visit,
>
> >> people to talk with, and any other valuable info
> related
> >> with visual music.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Thank you!
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Leo Cardoso
>
> >>
>
> >> Graduate student
>
> >>
>
> >> Butler School of Music
>
> >>
>
> >> University of Texas at Austin
>
> >>
>
> >> tel. (512) 216-8205
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >>
>
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at (address suppressed)
> om>.
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >>
>
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at (address suppressed)
> om>.
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at (address suppressed)
> om>.
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> --
>
> >> Leo Cardoso
>
> >> Graduate student
>
> >> Butler School of Music
>
> >> University of Texas at Austin
>
> >> le
> email suppressed
> >>
>
> >> tel. (512) 216-8205
>
> >> http://leocardoso.org/
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>
> >> (address suppressed)
> om>.
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at (address suppressed)
> om>.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at (address suppressed)
> om>.
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.