From: Jorge Lorenzo Flores Garza (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Dec 07 2009 - 08:17:30 PST
Well, I don't think students ever wanted to read at all, yesterday, today or tomorrow. I never wanted to read myself. It's just that there used to be only books. Now there's all these on-line resources and students do prefer to browse the web than get a book.
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:03:53 -0500
> From: email suppressed
> Subject: Re: looking for good intro text
> To: email suppressed
>
> Just to clarify once again:
>
> The point is not to berate students or install a nostalgia for days when students actually wanted to read books in film classes. Teaching is difficult and challenging work no matter where we are and no matter who the students are. It's our job to invite them into a larger conversation and disrupt their thinking so new thinking can emerge.
>
> The challenge for us as professors is that if there are no texts (some of us teach in countries or in places where having students buy texts is a financial burden, or, these eurocentric and american centric film texts can't be shipped for a reasonable price to other parts of the world), we need to invent new forms of ENGAGEMENT.
>
> To emphasize, my argument is that instead of nostalgia or sadism regarding higher education and students, we understand our current context and address it in imaginative ways that use new technologies and new thinking that broadens the conversation. My argument is that we all take an impossible situation and transform it into a possible situation. These challenges and contradictions offer exciting new openings.
>
> The key here is engagement of students through pragmatic analysis of the current social context we are teaching in and they are learning in.
>
> BTW, I was at the NAMAC conference last August. There were projectors behind the speakers and twitter feeds doing live responses were projected. It was very exciting--and helped me to learn a lot about social media.
>
> And it got me thinking, we should start reimagining how we interface with students. Film studies and film production runs the risk of being trapped and suffocated in nostalgia, which, if I understand it, is Tony's point.
>
> Thanks. Interesting conversation.
>
> -------
> Patricia R. Zimmermann, Ph.D.
> Professor, Cinema, Photography and Media Arts
> Roy H. Park School of Communications
> Codirector, Finger Lakes Environmental Film Festival
> Division of Interdisciplinary and International Studies
> 953 Danby Road
> Ithaca College
> Ithaca, New York 14850 USA
> Office: +1 (607) 274 3431
> FAX: +1 (607) 274 7078
> http://faculty.ithaca.edu/patty/
> http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff
> BLOG: http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff10/blogs/open_spaces/
> email suppressed
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 01:28:46 -0500
> >From: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>)
> >Subject: Re: looking for good intro text
> >To: email suppressed
> >
> >Hi Nicholas-----------
> >
> >The students are not "awful"; they've been treated to American secondary
> >education. Hence their command of English has not developed fully -- they would
> >not find usages such as "the curmudgeon pantheon of Moving-Image Arts History" or
> >"more intrigue into assigned readings" unwieldy or awkward at all.
> >
> >As for the cost of 'Art Cinema' from Taschen, this is undoubtedly an issue,
> >though it lists at only 30, whereas the acquisition of video production texts
> >such as Millerson (48), Utz (109), or Zettl (165) is probably expected and
> >accepted by students at "a more technically leaning institution."
> >
> >-----------t0ny
> >
> >
> >On Sun 12/06/09 11:48 PM , "Nicholas O'Brien" email suppressed sent:
> >> Your students sound awful! I get my students to read the material
> >> (incoming freshman or transfer 1st years) with only a little bit of
> >> hesitation. When the material is positioned away from the curmudgeon
> >> pantheon of Moving-Image Arts History and reframed as being an
> >> introduction to understanding their media environments, I've
> >> noticed a tendency for more intrigue into assigned readings (this
> >> coming from a more technically leaning institution).
> >> And not to be too antagonistic, but maybe it isn't the
> >> student's _fault_ that the price of Taschen/MIT
> >> Press/Phaidon/etc. books is more than they can afford (on top of the
> >> exorbitant amount for liberal arts undergrad).
> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Patricia R. Zimmermann wrote:
> >> It goes without saying in a film studies/theory course that if you
> >> don't read the books you are not going to pass or get beyond a C-.
> >> Most production students don't care about GPA in my experience.
> >> This is the world we are in now. Students don't want to read.
> >> We can hack this system, however, with imagination.
> >> -------
> >> Patricia R. Zimmermann, Ph.D.
> >> Professor, Cinema, Photography and Media Arts
> >> Roy H. Park School of Communications
> >> Codirector, Finger Lakes Environmental Film Festival
> >> Division of Interdisciplinary and International Studies
> >> 953 Danby Road
> >> Ithaca College
> >> Ithaca, New York 14850 USA
> >> Office: +1 (607) 274 3431
> >> FAX: +1 (607) 274 7078
> >> http://faculty.ithaca.edu/patty/ [2]
> >> http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff [3]
> >> BLOG: http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff10/blogs/open_spaces/ [4]
> >> ---- Original message ----
> >> >Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 02:05:22 +0000
> >> >From: Experimental Film Discussion List (on behalf of Rob Gawthrop
> >> )
> >> >Subject: Re: looking for good intro text
> >> >To:
> >> >
> >> > How about failing the students.
> >> >
> >> > Rob
> >> >
> >> > On 06/12/2009 23:31, "Beth Capper"
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > How about...
> >> > make your books available as downloadable pdfs!
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Patricia R.
> >> > Zimmermann wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hesitate to dive into this "book" issue for
> >> > film classes, but nonetheless,given the Web 2.0
> >> > zeitgeist, I must.
> >> >
> >> > I totally agree with Tony about books. The
> >> > undergraduates I teach at Ithaca College have
> >> > actually often gone to our dean to complain that
> >> > I actually USE books in my classes (for those
> >> > who don't know me, I teach history/theory, not
> >> > production). The norm for theory classes in
> >> > liberal arts at most schools is 5-8 books--and
> >> > all the students do in cinema studies courses is
> >> > complain and then take action against this. The
> >> > few overachievers who buy books are all focused
> >> > on getting into graduate PHD programs.
> >> >
> >> > The sad aspect of this anti intellectualism is
> >> > that students are shooting themselves in the
> >> > head and the foot by not reading. They are
> >> > entering industries and arts cultures with
> >> > highly education, liberal arts, humanistic
> >> > thinkers with analytical edge. By not reading
> >> > they are tracking themsevles into the hidden
> >> > class system of the media ecology.
> >> >
> >> > That said, I do think that the current
> >> > contradictions of this moment in higher
> >> > education offer all us new ways to imagine
> >> > inviting students into a larger disciplinary
> >> > based conversation that is both legacy and
> >> > innovative. Here are some ideas I've culled from
> >> > colleagues that I'm going to steal to propel
> >> > more engagement:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Use websites on the syllabus and have
> >> > students INTERACT with the website
> >> >
> >> > 2. use blogs and require blogging and require
> >> > linking
> >> >
> >> > 3. require students to participate in and
> >> > comment on smart blogs in our field (there are a
> >> > lot, in fact, I have one myself)
> >> >
> >> > 4. Use blackboard and post your websites
> >> >
> >> > 5. Do webinars and conference calls (it's free,
> >> > they dial in) with people in the field who have
> >> > knowledge you want them to know. I taught a
> >> > course a few years ago and we had Scott
> >> > MacDonald as a "course listserv" guest. I
> >> > taught a course in film festivals, online, this
> >> > summer, and we did four conference calls
> >> > withpeople in the field, requiring students to
> >> > read the websites and bios BEFORE the networking
> >> > call)
> >> >
> >> > 6. About ten years ago, our own Tony Conrad had
> >> > me on a conference call with his class to
> >> > discuss an article I had written. I think he
> >> > had me call into a phone line he put on speaker
> >> > phone. I had a blast. I didni't have to travel
> >> > to Buffalo, and I enjoyed it and felt comraderie
> >> > with Tony.
> >> >
> >> > 7. Use Wikis to engage dialogue
> >> >
> >> > 8. Use teleconferencing to bring in
> >> > conversations with people around the world
> >> >
> >> > 9. If you can't find a book on a topic, that
> >> > means your class it breaking new ground. Treat
> >> > it like a film festival and bring people
> >> > involved in those organizations or those films
> >> > into your class via all of the above--see if
> >> > your school can get them some minimal honoraria
> >> > or trade them something.
> >> >
> >> > 10. Be optimistic, have fun, let go of old
> >> > assumptions, invent new ways to invite students
> >> > into the field through engagement.
> >> >
> >> > All for now--good luck. Pedagogy is changing,
> >> > and it's really been an eye opener for me. We no
> >> > longer need to wait for books to be available,
> >> > since most books now don't fit most film
> >> > classes, they are monographs.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks, Tony, for making me think.
> >> >
> >> > Patty Zimmermann
> >> >
> >> > -------
> >> > Patricia R. Zimmermann, Ph.D.
> >> > Professor, Cinema, Photography and Media Arts
> >> > Roy H. Park School of Communications
> >> > Codirector, Finger Lakes Environmental Film
> >> > Festival
> >> > Division of Interdisciplinary and International
> >> > Studies
> >> > 953 Danby Road
> >> > Ithaca College
> >> > Ithaca, New York 14850 USA
> >> > Office: +1 (607) 274 3431
> >> > FAX: +1 (607) 274 7078
> >> > http://faculty.ithaca.edu/patty/ [11]
> >> > http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff [12]
> >> > BLOG:
> >> > http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff10/blogs/open_spaces/ [13]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---- Original message ----
> >> > >Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 16:35:17 -0500
> >> > >From: Experimental Film Discussion List
> >> > (on behalf of Tony
> >> > Conrad )
> >> > >Subject: Re: looking for good intro text
> >> > >To:
> >> > >
> >> > >Hi Bernie--------
> >> > >
> >> > >You will probably not like this message.
> >> > >
> >> > >But yesterday I received my copy of a new
> >> > Taschen book, Art Cinema
> >> > >(9783822835944), that takes a swipe at the huge
> >> > project of connecting cinema, in
> >> > >its origins and full sweep as art, with the
> >> > contemporary art media. In it you
> >> > >will find Bresson, Pipilotti Rist, Aernout Mik,
> >> > Len Lye, Muehl, Sharits, Arrabal,
> >> > >Tracey Moffatt, Dreyer, Greenaway, etc. etc.
> >> > (but no community-based video at
> >> > >all). Of course this book is a failure, but it
> >> > connects viscerally with things
> >> > >students are interested in (sex, surrealism,
> >> > movies), and is loaded with pix and
> >> > >lite on text. In fact, I will consider it as a
> >> > textbook for certain of my own
> >> > >classes.
> >> > >
> >> > >That said, my experience has been that students
> >> > don't buy books any more,
> >> > >especially big beautiful picture books---
> >> > however useful. I used Michael Rush's
> >> > >book Video Art as a text, and I felt that
> >> > nobody in the class owned or really
> >> > >read it very much. The fact is that students
> >> > will access a compilation of
> >> > >websites more readily than they will use
> >> > reserve texts at the library, even when
> >> > >in the library itself. The only books that
> >> > average students regularly acquire are
> >> > >"textbooks" they are required to swallow page
> >> > by page, in business, science, and
> >> > >pre-med courses. Except among over-achievers,
> >> > books are over.
> >> > >
> >> > >:-)
> >> > >
> >> > >-----------t0ny
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >On Sun 12/06/09 10:22 AM , Mark Webber
> >> > sent:
> >> > >> bernard
> >> > >>
> >> > >> this sounds something like a book i've been
> >> > working on for a few
> >> > >> years, and i'm afraid it is still a few years
> >> > away.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> my project is an oral history of the
> >> > development of 'avant-garde' film
> >> > >> from the 50s to the 70s, predominantly
> >> > covering the US situation,
> >> > >> which will be told in the words of those
> >> > directly involved. it is more
> >> > >> of a social / cultural history of the ways in
> >> > which the films were
> >> > >> made, shown, distributed and discussed rather
> >> > than a study of the
> >> > >> films themselves.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> i've conducted 70-80 new interviews to date.
> >> > eventually, copies of the
> >> > >> complete interview transcripts and recordings
> >> > (many of which are 3-4
> >> > >> hours long) will be deposited at archives in
> >> > new york and london,
> >> > >> where they will be available for other
> >> > researchers.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> details below of a related (free) event in
> >> > new york this evening. (not
> >> > >> sure if it's just me, but i didn't receive
> >> > part 1 of the this weeks
> >> > >> listings)
> >> > >>
> >> > >> mark
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ...
> >> > >>
> >> > >> UNDERGROUND NEW YORK
> >> > >> New York Gershwin Hotel
> >> > >> Sunday 6 December 2009, at 7:30pm
> >> > >>
> >> > >> In the 1960s, filmmakers investigated new
> >> > forms of production in
> >> > >> dialogue with radical shifts in art, music,
> >> > performance and popular
> >> > >> culture. Following the example of the Beats,
> >> > the counterculture was
> >> > >> alive with protest, freedom of expression and
> >> > the breaking of taboos,
> >> > >> and from the Film-Makersa�� Coop to Andy
> >> > Warhola��s Factory,
> >> > >> portable 16mm cameras were bringing a whole
> >> > new way of seeing to the cinema
> >> > >screen.
> >> > >> These heady days of a��underground
> >> > filma�� were captured by
> >> > >> Gideon Bachmann in a spirited broadcast for
> >> > German television. Rarely seen
> >> > >> today, it is one of the few surviving
> >> > documents to show aspects of New
> >> > >> Yorka��s independent film community
> >> > during this exhilarating
> >> > >> period.
> >> > >> UNDERGROUND NEW YORK (PROTEST WOFA�R)
> >> > >> Gideon Bachmann, 1967, black & white, sound,
> >> > 51 minutes
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Shirley Clarke grows carrots on top of the
> >> > Chelsea Hotel and meets
> >> > >> Jonas Mekas and Michelangelo Antonioni at the
> >> > Film-Makersa��
> >> > >> Distribution Center. Allen Ginsberg, Susan
> >> > Sontag and Tuli Kupferberg
> >> > >> protest for peace before being shipped off to
> >> > the Department of
> >> > >> Correction. USCO freak out in their
> >> > intermedia church and Maurice Amar
> >> > >> stages a happening at the Movie Subscription
> >> > Group. Gideon Bachmann
> >> > >> goes on location with Adolfas Mekas in New
> >> > Jersey, George Kuchar in
> >> > >> the Bronx, and Carl Linder in his bedroom.
> >> > Bruce Conner dances in a
> >> > >> diner, and Andy Warhol fakes it for
> >> > television.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Presented by Mark Webber, the
> >> > Gershwina��s outgoing artist in
> >> > >> residence, who is currently researching an
> >> > oral history of avant-garde cinema
> >> > >> from the 1950s through the 1970s. Some of
> >> > those interviewed for the
> >> > >> project will be present.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Free Admission.
> >> > >> Arrive 7:30pm. Screening 8pm.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> at
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The Gershwin Hotel
> >> > >> 7 East 27 Street (between 5th & Madison)
> >> > >> New York, NY 10016.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Subways: R, W, 6 at 28 St or F, V at 23 St.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 4 Dec 2009, at 09:02, FRAMEWORKS automatic
> >> > digest system wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:25:44
> >> > >> -0800> From: Bernard Roddy OO.COM [19]
> >> > >> Subject: looking for good
> >> > intro text
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Greetings, frameworkers:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Can anyone think of an introductory text
> >> > that
> >> > >> combines a history of > experimental film
> >> > and video IN THE U.S. with a
> >> > >> strong discussion of > the history of
> >> > artists' organizing, writing, and
> >> > >> distribution IN THE > US?
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > For Great Britain there's David Curtis' A
> >> > >> History of Artists' Film > and Video in
> >> > Britain. This has the distinct
> >> > >> advantage of combining > film and video art
> >> > criticism with strong (and
> >> > >> introductory) writing > about the social
> >> > history behind production,
> >> > >> distribution, and > critical reception.
> >> > It includes discussion of
> >> > >> "little magazines," > the "schooling" of
> >> > film artists,
> >> > >> institutional support for artists' > work
> >> > in film such as the Experimental
> >> > >Film Fund
> >> > >> and the Arts > Council, as well as issues
> >> > motivating and
> >> > >> confronting artists' > organizations like
> >> > the London Filmmakers'
> >> > >> Co-op.>
> >> > >> > I'd love to find something like this for
> >> > the
> >> > >> U.S. It would include > a history of
> >> > things like Canyon Cinema and the
> >> > >> Film-Makers' Co-op, > Cinema 16 and
> >> > Anthology Film Archives, in
> >> > >> addition to offering a > critical context
> >> > for student work.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Thanks in advance.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Bernie
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________________________
> >> > >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov
> >> > at om>.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >__________________________________________________________________
> >> > >For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> >> > .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________________________
> >> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> >> > .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________________________
> >> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> >> > .
> >> >
> >> > Email has been scanned for viruses by Altman
> >> > Technologies' email management service
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________________________
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at .
> >> --
> >> Nicholas O'Brien
> >> doubleunderscore.net [26]
> >> __________________________________________________________________
> >> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Links:
> >> ------
> >> [2] http://faculty.ithaca.edu/patty/
> >> [3] http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff
> >> [4] http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff10/blogs/open_spaces/
> >> [11] http://faculty.ithaca.edu/patty/
> >> [12] http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff
> >> [13] http://www.ithaca.edu/fleff10/blogs/open_spaces/
> >> [19] http://OO.COM
> >> [20] http://OO.COM
> >> [24] http://www.altman.co.uk/emailsystems
> >> [26] http://doubleunderscore.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________________________
> >For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
_________________________________________________________________
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