From: Freya (email suppressed)
Date: Sat Jan 23 2010 - 15:25:16 PST
Jeffrey, I think you are understandably getting confused. Fred and Marc are talking about a lost technology whereby you would start with a roll of REVERSAL film, and then be able to make a direct print from it onto a special print stock (that is now discontinued) without any interneg etc.
I knew there were stocks like this for making Kodachrome prints etc but not for B&W.
Basically from what I can tell this would mean you could shoot reversal. Edit it on a steinbeck or even a little movie editor, and then finally make a print direct from that without any internegative. This would completely save you the need of workprints if you weren't in fear of a few scratches.
Who needs telecine! ;)
It's a real shame this technology is gone now.
Sounds really empowering.
With regard to print stock, it's still presently available in B&W if you want to make prints from B&W negative, theres no need to make a print on colour print stock.
Lastly as a complete aside to all this, I think you meant double-x and not Tri-X negative as Tri-X negative hasn't been around for a long time either. Tri-X is only available in 16mm and Super8 reversal for movie stock. I have some 16mm tri-x negative in my basement but its expiry date is 1969. I'm told it was a good year tho! ;)
love
Freya
--- On Sat, 1/23/10, JEFFREY PAULL <email suppressed> wrote:
> From: JEFFREY PAULL <email suppressed>
> Subject: Plus-X Reversal for projector prints isn't a good idea.
> To: email suppressed
> Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 10:06 PM
> Greetings -
> The following is true of both colour stocks and B&W
> stocks.
>
> All camera negative film stocks are extra low contrast (to
> capture the big range of tones of a scene).
> The projection positive stocks used to make positive prints
> from those low contast originals are always extra-high
> contrast stocks.
> They kick up the negative's low contrast so it has a "good"
> contrast on the screen.
> Also:
> B&W Camera negative stocks (Plus-X and Tri-X) have a
> grey layer built into the plastic base. Can't be washed
> out.
> In the camera, this absorbs the light of extra-bright parts
> of the image so it doesn't "halate" - make glowing rings
> around lightbulbs in the picture.
> If you were to project a print made on these camera stocks,
> that grey plastic base would hold back some of the total
> light and make the picture dimmer than if you'd used a
> regular print stock.
>
> Regular print stocks receive only very careful exposure in
> the lab, so grey plastic isn't needed to absorb excess
> light.
> So print stocks have transparent plastic bases, and all the
> projection light shining through the bright parts of the
> image, winds up on the screen.
>
> What to do, if you want to make projection prints from
> B&W Plus-X or Tri-X?
>
> Print it on (high contrast) colour positive print stock,
> (see intro sentence at start.) even though there's no
> colour.
> It will kick up the B&W contrast just as the B&W
> stock would have done that.
> But, you may not get a totally neutral grey scale; the
> image may wind up bluish or brownish, etc.
> Discuss with your lab maven.
>
> One more: sound track stocks are high contrast stocks, but
> they might have a grey plast base also.
> So the resulting prints might have a "good" contrast, but
> they'd be dimmer than usual.
>
> - Jeffrey Paull
>
> On Sat 23/01/10 15:37 , Mark Toscano email suppressed
> sent:
> > I was thinking maybe Fred meant the 7361 b/w reversal
> print stock, which is
> > indeed discontinued, so if you want to make prints
> from reversal b/w, you
> > have to either make a dupe neg or use Plus-X or Tri-X
> as print stock and do
> > it yourself or with an accommodating lab...
> >
> >
> > mark t
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Freya (address suppressed)
> > AHOO.COM> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > From: Freya (address suppressed)
> > AHOO.COM>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRAMEWORKS] Research question:
> Plus-X
> > Reversal
> > > To: F
> > email suppressed
> > > Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 11:13 AM
> >
> > > Not sure if I am misunderstanding
> >
> > > you. I can't imagine that you mean that Plus-X
> Reversal
> > is
> > > obsolete because it has been replaced by colour
> neg or
> >
> > > something, given that you sensibly point out that
> all
> > the
> > > different technologies, new and old, are a canvas
> of
> >
> > > artistic possibilities from which an artist can
> choose.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > However if you meant that it is obsolete in the
> sense
> > of
> > > being no longer available, (You say "where art
> tho?") I
> >
> > > should point out that thou art still available
> from
> > Kodak as
> > > ever. Kodak have even recently updated their
> publicity
> > still
> > > in fact:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Products/Production/Black_
> > And_White_Films/7265.htm
> > >
> >
> > > (For some reason for the first few seconds I
> thought
> > she
> > > was cutting her toenails!)
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Even more suprisingly Tri-X Reversal is also
> still
> >
> > > available in 16mm too!
> >
> > >
> >
> > > They are both available in 100 and 400ft roll
> lengths
> > and
> > > they are also both available in Super8 still
> too.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I encourage anybody with the resources to
> do so to
> > shoot
> > > some. It looks amazing! Really beautiful and an
> easy
> > way to
> > > add some magic to your film.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Sadly I expect if I shoot anything this
> next year it
> > will
> > > probably be video, but we shall see what
> transpires! :)
> >
> > >
> >
> > > love
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Freya
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > This is not to say that each person must
> consider
> >
> > > every new
> >
> > > > technological development an "advance." Some
> might
> >
> > > have no
> >
> > > > use for 3-D, or Imax, or multi-screen
> events. But
> >
> > > every
> >
> > > > technological development is an "advance" if
> all it
> >
> > > does is
> >
> > > > open up a new possibility. Unfortunately in
> some
> >
> > > cases
> >
> > > > "advances" eventually make older
> possibilities
> >
> > > obsolete.
> >
> > > > (16mm Plus-X Reversal, where art thou?)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Fred Camper
> >
> > > > Chicago
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > > > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov
> at (address suppressed)
> > om>.
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> (address suppressed)
> > om>.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> >
> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at (address suppressed)
> > om>.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.