From: email suppressed
Date: Tue Jul 06 2010 - 06:39:41 PDT
The persistence theory has been wholly discredited as a way of
explaining the illusion of mevement. Link here to a good critique of
the theory and its persistence among film theorists:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080526105906/www.uca.edu/org/ccsmi/ccsmi/classicwork/Myth+Revisited.htm
Nicky Hamlyn.
On 6 Jul 2010, at 14:22, bryan mckay wrote:
> This may be a little pedantic, but the afterimage is not
> "persistence of vision," it's just an afterimage, which is something
> in and of itself. Persistence of vision refers to a theory relating
> to how viewers perceive cinematic motion. A theory, I should add,
> that has been largely disproved by scientists, despite film
> theorists still hanging on to the notion. Experiencing film is a
> complex cognitive process, an active process, and not a passive
> piling on of images in our retina.
>
> Bryan
>
> On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:21 AM, Amanda Christie wrote:
>
>> Hello Anja,
>>
>> my apologies... when i used the word "intense" I was referring to
>> the intensity of the flicker effect on the human brain in terms of
>> it's power to cause psychological effects (similar to the
>> hallucinogenic results of a dream machine)... not to emotional or
>> aesthetic intensity....
>>
>> I don't argue with you... the after image left behind is what is
>> called "persistence of vision" and it is very real and very
>> beautiful. And I do like Paul Sharits' films very much as well.
>>
>> I was simply trying to clear up what appeared to be some confusion,
>> and alas, I seem to have created even more.
>> that still image on the blog post is not from Tony Conrad's "The
>> Flicker"....
>>
>> Have a good day,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Amanda Dawn Christie
>> --------------------------------
>> Master of Fine Arts
>> www.amandadawnchristie.ca
>> --------------------------------
>> 506-871-2062
>> email suppressed
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6-Jul-10, at 8:14 AM, anja ross wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Amanda,
>>> I quote you:
>>> Yes, Paul Sharits' films do use the technique of flicker, but Tony
>>> Conrad's film is a much more intense approach (THIS IS THE
>>> QUESTION OF PERCEPTION AND TASTE), as it is pure black and white
>>> with no representational human forms. you receive the after image,
>>> the intense image, if you combine white frames and black frames
>>> with an image inbetween. So what.
>>> Honestly I do not know Tony Conrads flicker, but the Still itself
>>> is beautyful on the blog perhaps he should do something on paper.
>>>
>>> Faithfully and a good daqy, Anja
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/7/6 Amanda Christie <email suppressed>
>>> Hello Anja,
>>>
>>> I believe that Brjorn is referring to the title of a film called
>>> "The Flicker" made by Tony Conrad in 1965.
>>> This film does use the phenomenon of flicker as you described, but
>>> it is a specific work of art that Bjorn is referring to.
>>>
>>> here is a link to an interview with Tony Conrad about "The
>>> Flicker" in case you are interested.
>>> http://flicker75.blogspot.com/2008/01/tony-conrad.html
>>>
>>> Yes, Paul Sharits' films do use the technique of flicker, but Tony
>>> Conrad's film is a much more intense approach, as it is pure black
>>> and white with no representational human forms.
>>>
>>> Amanda Dawn Christie
>>> --------------------------------
>>> Master of Fine Arts
>>> www.amandadawnchristie.ca
>>> --------------------------------
>>> 506-871-2062
>>> email suppressed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6-Jul-10, at 7:49 AM, anja ross wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Mister Lundgren,
>>>> Flicker means, one kaderpicture to another (25 frames = 1 sec).
>>>> See Paul Sharits films, so and we are still slow with our eyes so
>>>> that you get the flash by watching.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes, ANJA C. ROSS
>>>> www.anjaross.blogspot.com (digital without zelluloid)
>>>>
>>>> 2010/7/6 Lundgren <email suppressed>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Do you happen to have a code to the flicker?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Björn Lundgren
>>>> Sweden
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Tony Conrad" <email suppressed>
>>>> To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" <email suppressed
>>>> >
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] The code of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Hi---------
>>>> >
>>>> > My "The Flicker" has many of the characteristics mentioned in
>>>> this
>>>> > discussion.
>>>> > Totally binary in its main content, it is in many respects
>>>> indestructible.
>>>> > The
>>>> > sound and titles are analog, however. Kubelka's score is more
>>>> pointilist
>>>> > than
>>>> > mine, which can be deciphered from published illustrations. You
>>>> might
>>>> > refer to
>>>> > Branden Joseph's wonderful treatment in "Beyond the Dream
>>>> Syndicate."
>>>> >
>>>> > -----------t0ny
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon 07/05/10 2:31 AM , Evan Meaney email suppressed sent:
>>>> >> Hi Björn:
>>>> >> It's funny, I'm actually teaching a class about codes and
>>>> sequences
>>>> >> in cinema in the fall, stateside - Kubelka's AR is an
>>>> important part
>>>> >> of the syllabus. I haven't found a ton of work about the
>>>> _specific_
>>>> >> code at work in AR but I was lucky enough to see him speak a few
>>>> >> years ago about it. He said that he was interested in having the
>>>> >> exact same amount of light and dark hit the screen over the
>>>> duration
>>>> >> of the piece. The presence and absence of information
>>>> equalizing one
>>>> >> another. Ditto for the sound, where the noise ( I forget it if
>>>> it's
>>>> >> just white noise or something more particular at the moment)
>>>> >> contrasts directly with the silence.
>>>> >> I would love, love, love to see that rock and find out that
>>>> exact
>>>> >> equation.If someone out there has it, do let us know.
>>>> >> All the best,
>>>> >> Evan
>>>> >> On Jul 4, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Lundgren wrote:
>>>> >> I remeber reading about Peter Kubelka saying something about
>>>> that
>>>> >> Arnulf
>>>> >> Rainer was the only eternal film, that he would write down the
>>>> >> concept/code/script/equation/whatever on a rock and then when
>>>> all
>>>> >> other
>>>> >> works of cinema had faded away (by technical death or
>>>> whatever) his
>>>> >> could
>>>> >> allways be recreated perfectly in its intended form.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Anyway, what I was interested in was that form. Does anyone
>>>> know if
>>>> >> he ever
>>>> >> spoke of the "code" or has anyone with access to a film copy
>>>> been
>>>> >> able to
>>>> >> determine it?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> A secondary question is also this: What is the technical form
>>>> of the
>>>> >> "soundtrack"?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ______________
>>>> >> Björn Lundgren
>>>> >> Sweden
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
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