From: Jason Halprin (email suppressed)
Date: Thu Oct 14 2010 - 06:24:46 PDT
Beth,
Despite the fact that Canyon is run as a for-profit company, no one there is
getting rich either. My understanding is that from a book-keeping standpoint,
the folks in SF have decided never to incorporate as a 501(c), though this might
allow them to take donations - easier said than done. And remember, being a
non-profit doesn't mean people aren't getting rich. Both you and I are
affiliated with non-profit institutions that have highly paid executives running
them.
The larger point that a number of people have brought up with ubuweb has to do
with their method for acquiring materials. I don't know if it is still the case,
but they used to live by the addage "It's better to ask forgiveness than to ask
for permision." Ultimately I will always support the rights of an artist to
determine the methods of distribution for their work. What irked me initially
with UW was their "wall of shame," a page dedicated to an attempt at publicly
flogging anyone who requested their work be removed. This page was removed, and
I believe the administrator's of the site have since changed their position on
this issue.
To people like Peter Rose, I commend them for contributing to the site. It's an
amazing thing that I can go and watch Secondary Currents whenever I want. But he
got to make that decision. He had a say in how, when, and where people accessed
his work. This is one of the eternal and ongoing discussions whenever cultural
artifacts are concerned: Do the rights and wants of the creator outweigh those
of the public? My answer has always been that will the author of a work is still
alive, they should maintain as much control as they desire.
I've had numerous students who have discovered ubuweb on their own, and I've
gladly shown students the site in class to make them aware of its existence. It
is an excellent resource, but it's administrator's behavior has been suspect in
the past. Let's hope that any temporary shutdowns in the future are due to
technical glitches, and not malicious attacks.
-Jason Halprin
________________________________
From: Beth Capper <email suppressed>
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>
Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 9:48:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] UbuWeb...HACKED!
The difference is for/not-for profit. Canyon, I would imagine, has their own fee
in addition to artists fees, while I doubt anyone at Ubu is getting rich off
their free content.
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Matt Helme <email suppressed> wrote:
Sure, why not do it the right way? Would Canyon Cinema ever distribute a film
without the makers permission?
>Matt
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: "email suppressed>
>To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>
>Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:15:36 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [Frameworks] UbuWeb...HACKED!
>
>
>
>Allowing people to see things - people who live in, say, the developing world,
>not in New York or London or wherever - letting them know there's more to cinema
>than the latest blockbuster - can only be of value. Not everything is available
>on DVD. Many countries practice censorship. Ubuweb offers / offered a
>celebration of the possibilities in creative practice that otherwise people may
>never get to experience.
>
>
>BTW there's also evidence that people who LIKE stuff they find online
>subsequently purchase it.
>
>
>Jack
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 14/10/2010, at 12:45 PM, Matt Helme wrote:
>
>To not get permission is rude and illegal.
>>Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: "email suppressed>
>>To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>
>>Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 8:59:12 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Frameworks] UbuWeb...HACKED!
>>
>>http://jacksargeant.blogspot.com/2010/10/vale-ubu.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 14/10/2010, at 11:48 AM, Beth Capper wrote:
>>
>>And, if you ever read Cory Doctorow, you'll realize that yes, people do buy the
>>books even when it's out there for free (Doctorow's books are all available
>>online for download, yet two of them have been on bestseller's lists). Could it
>>perhaps be a misconception that forcing scarcity (esp. in the case of digital
>>works) is a good business model?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Beverly
O'Neill <email suppressed> wrote:
>>>
>>>Dear Jack, Your point is well taken. How do viewers get access to this kind of
>>>work? However, UBU simply pirated artists films without asking permission, or
>>>paying a small fee to upload films onto their site. Two years ago this listserv
>>>spent considerable time arguing about the validity of Ken Goldsmith's (UBU's
>>>creator) tactics. If you backtrack in the Frameworks archive you can follow
>>>that thread. Everything that was said then still applies today. Many of the
>>>responses supported the case you are making now. Obviously I was opposed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don't close the library, don't prohibit access but do buy the books.
>>>>
>>>>Beverly O'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"good news"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>not for anybody who wants to see one of these movies, read an essay or listen to
>>>>>some sound who doesn't live in a major urban centre or have access to a museum.
>>>>>Maybe the copyright is an issue, but they made work available that often isn't
>>>>>readily accessible, and that counts for something.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bottom line is that regardless of anything, it's a resource and a library, and
>>>>>I've never been one for prohibiting access and closing libraries...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Jack
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 14/10/2010, at 7:29 AM, Beverly O'Neill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Ah, this is such good news. I will refrain from posting a screed about that
>>>>>site. A Google search offers a number of condolences to Ken Goldsmith, UBU's
>>>>>founder. One writer wondered if the anniversary of John Lennon's death and the
>>>>>simultaneous hacking of UBU had anything in common.
>>>>>>So thrilled!
>>>>>>Beverly O'Neill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Oct 11, 2010, at 8:01 PM, Shane Christian Eason wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So...yeah...um...apparently UBU is offline! Hacked!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Considering what has been discussed in the past regarding this website,
>>>>>>>does anyone want to comment on this? Additional information? Very odd,
>>>>>>>considering I was on the site this past weekend. Although, my iPhone App
>>>>>>>for WFMU UbuWeb Radio continues to work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Curious,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Shane
>>>>>>>_________________________________________ Shane Christian Eason, BFA; MFA
>>>>>>>School of Communication and Multimedia Studies
>>>>>>>Dorothy F. Schmidt College of Arts & Letters
>>>>>>>Florida Atlantic University
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>O: (954) 762 5246
>>>>>>>F: (954) 762 5122
>>>>>>>E1: email suppressed
>>>>>>>E2: email suppressed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Blog: shaneeason.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>Web: shanechristianeason.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Miami | Fort Lauderdale | Palm Beach
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>FrameWorks mailing list
>>>>>>>email suppressed
>>>>>>>http://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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