That's funny David, but I was not trying to slay any vampires. I was just trying to be part of a discussion. What's funny too is that I think we all essentially agree. I NEVER would have put my head in the lion's mouth to answer a question such as "what's better, film or video?" For one thing, I don't think, even at the very depths of my being, that one is better than the other. I was trying to answer a question that had to do with peoples' personal practice and preferences. Somehow all of my answers got interpreted as "film is better than video," so the lion bit anyway. So if that's what you disagree with you are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Fred's fantasy life in which I say much stupider things than I actually say. But often what happens is that once an allegation is made it sticks, whether it's true or not. The only statement I made that was not an expression of personal tastes was the one about materials having intrinsic value.
As for your "chill" comment, I think it stuck out because there was such an awareness on your part of the gender of the person writing. It makes people feel self-conscious. Suddenly the person writing feels as if they belong to a special category which is a "lady," and suddenly it's not like here we are all together, discussing cultural issues, it's like, "here are the people, and here are the ladies." I don't think it has anything to do with fear of speaking out because of being a "lady." It's more a discomfort for being singled out, as if your views are contingent only upon your gender. So if you're seriously asking what terminology to apply, I would say, don't call attention to peoples' gender any more than you would to their race, unless it's absolutely necessary. That's always a good rule of thumb.
On Aug 25, 2011, at 9:01 PM, David Tetzlaff wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Beth Capper <capper.beth_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> Chill, ladies? LOL, for real?
>
> "I just did it for the Lulz!"
>
> Yeah, for real.
>
> What term would you have preferred? "Chill, peeps!"?
>
> Honestly, I didn't think 'ladies' was offensive, as I think of the pairing 'ladies and gentlemen' and I don't think of 'gentlemen' as disrespectful. Perhaps it comes off a bit sarcastic, using a more formal term in an informal setting, but again I was just tapping out a quick reply and not laboring over my words. I am, of course, totally aware of the fact that I have written Frameworks posts that caused other members of the list to tell me to chill, so I am not presenting myself as any sort of authority or master-of-the-chill or anything. I just think the responses to Yalkut were off-point.
>
> Seriously, if anybody has (non-facetious and non-snarky) suggestions for better terminology to apply, let me know. If its a problem, I'd appreciate help finding a solution.
>
> Nevertheless, my reaction to the students who stay away from the list because it's a 'boys club' is to call 'bullshit.' Get some confidence in yourself as a person and speak your piece because no one is going to do it for you. Frameworks is what its members make it, and I for one would welcome discussions of women in experimental film, or gender issues in experimental work, or any such stuff. Let's chat about (the fabulous) Laura Mulvey: 'Riddles of the Sphinx' and 'AMY!' How do you think Maya Deren or Carolee Schneeman or Abigail Child (just to name 3 of a much longer list) would react to that 'boys club' line? I'm thinking they'd say, 'That's right. It is a boys club, which is why YOU have to break down the door."
>
> Or simply direct them to the current exchange between Fred Camper and Anna Biller. I might disagree with Anna, but this is supposed to be a _discussion_ list, and she does not shy away from dialog and argument,, taking time to write out serious posts, standing her ground and deferring to no one. She's the Buffy of Frameworks ;-) ! I mean, if your response to loud-talking guys is to shy away into the corner, you're just doing patriarchy's job, having absorbed the disciplinary episteme or whatever Foucault would say (I'd reference Irigaray if I understood anything she's said, which I don't...) Okay, Kathleen Hanna I do understand, so show those kids some Sadie Benning pieces and Le Tigre videos and bade them kick some ass.
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Received on Sat Aug 27 2011 - 00:47:06 CDT
