From: Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Feb 23 2009 - 18:32:44 PST
just makes me regret even more now the fact that i had to sell the
thing. interesting mystery, though. i am glad to know all this, as
i would have probably attempted this again with any old Double 8
camera if i had not run into your information. i tried to post a pic
of the actual film strip so you could see it, but i was unable to
upload it to the listserve. there isn't even a mark on the film
where the claw would have (should have) dented it. a testament to the
gentle disposition of the Bolex. and yes, you are right. every roll
i shot with this camera had the same off-registration thing with the
quadrants.
enjoy today...
Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
www.solislandmediaworks.com
www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
http://cinesthesia.blip.tv
On Feb 23, 2009, at 8:42 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
> Dinorah,
>
> If that is the case, then somehow you were able to jam 16mm film
> through the 8mm camera in spite of the extra sprockets on the
> camera drive wheels pressing into the film stock, and the fact that
> the claw would jam into the film between sprocket holes. I guess
> the camera drive managed to force the film through in spite of
> this. This is the first time I ever heard of this. I doubt there
> was anything special about the camera, although early models had
> double sprocket drive wheels which may have helped to jam it
> through somehow. I am surprised you didn't see some visible signs
> in the footage, although I did notice that the quadrants on the
> left are not quite lined up with quadrants on the right, which may
> be an indication.
>
> Myron
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez wrote:
>
>> myron, i sold off my Bolex R8 over 15 years ago, so i do not have
>> it in front of me in order to share the camera's specs. i will
>> qualify, however, by pointing out that i used a BOLEX (circa
>> 1948-52) and not a Krasnogorsk (i did own a K-3 at one time, but
>> that is a regular 16mm camera and much newer than the Bolex - lots
>> of problems with that one, but i liked the effects it gave me by
>> unexpectedly losing its loop from time to time) and we may indeed
>> be talking about two different types of cameras, or cameras from
>> different eras. Anyway, what i do still have is the footage that
>> i ran through the Bolex and that footage is on 16mm stock (yes,
>> double-perf - but no, not double-sprocketed) .
>>
>> the camera came into my hands around the mid-90s and (like Miriam)
>> i bought it thinking that it was a regular 16mm camera - in my
>> blissful innocence, i loaded it up with some stock that i had
>> laying around (Kodak 7239). the film came out exposed on only
>> half the frame, as i only ran it through once (there is a sample
>> of this footage on the film in the link that i posted before). i
>> used the black side of the frame to scratch on.
>>
>> once i saw what i had, i ran another roll through the R8, then
>> flipped the roll around, ran it back through a second time, and
>> got the quartered frame effect with half the images showing upside
>> down (there is also a sample of that footage in that same film).
>>
>> i agree with you that the frame lines are visible and not exactly
>> attractive, but the "look" of my films has always been
>> "distressed" so i accepted that and embraced it as an effect.
>>
>> and i am not certain that the Krasnogorsk would be as gentle on
>> film as the Bolex, since i remember the K-3 as a pretty brutal
>> little machine. but the Bolex did run the film easily with no ill
>> effects.
>>
>> perhaps we are talking about two different types of R8s. It may
>> be that my Bolex was much older than newer models designed
>> specifically for double-sprocketed film stocks. if this is the
>> case, then Miriam would do best to heed your advice and avoid
>> loading regular 16mm into her new Krasnogorsk, because those
>> cameras did not come into the market until sometime around the 1970s.
>>
>> enjoy today...
>>
>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
>> Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
>>
>> www.solislandmediaworks.com
>> www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
>> http://cinesthesia.blip.tv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
>>
>>> When you say you ran 16mm film through an 8mm camera are you sure
>>> you are not referring to "double 8mm" film which looks exactly
>>> like 16mm film except with twice as many sprocket holes on each
>>> side? Otherwise you simply cannot run 16mm film through an 8mm
>>> camera. Impossible unless you punch another set of sprocket holes
>>> in the film. I think we have a semantic issue here. Unless you
>>> know some secret technique of modifying the 8mm camera or I am
>>> not getting something here. What happens when the 8mm camera
>>> claw digs into the film where there ain't no sprocket hole?
>>> Doesn't that jam things? Are you saying you somehow force 16mm
>>> film through an 8mm camera even it doesn't want to do it?
>>>
>>>
>>> mo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>>> rick, i have made several films using the described method of
>>>> 16mm film run through a double-8 camera, spliced into regular
>>>> 16mm footage, and projected as 16mm. so it IS possible, it is
>>>> just not the standard way to do things. i remember a 16mm film
>>>> entitled "Drawn and Quartered" by Lynne Sachs made in the early
>>>> 1980s that was entirely constructed using this technique. i'm
>>>> sure others will confirm this fact.
>>>>
>>>> i am attaching a link to one of my films that uses this type of
>>>> footage so you can see what it looks like if interested. the
>>>> film is a collage and the footage is interspersed throughout,
>>>> alongside other 16mm footage (never counted sprocket holes, just
>>>> got lucky i guess). you have to watch the film a bit before you
>>>> can see the first samples of this effect. there are other weird
>>>> effects in this film, as most of the film was made using damaged
>>>> or "obsolete" cameras.
>>>>
>>>> l'anatomie du desir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> enjoy today...
>>>>
>>>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
>>>> Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
>>>>
>>>> www.solislandmediaworks.com
>>>> www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
>>>> http://cinesthesia.blip.tv
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Dicky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Miriam,
>>>>> There's a really high amount of misinformation on this thread.
>>>>> I have made many films with Regular 8, and am working on one
>>>>> right now in fact, so let me try and correct some of these
>>>>> mistakes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regular 8 cameras do not take 16 mm film per se; you cannot
>>>>> just go out and buy 16 mm film and put it in the camera.
>>>>> Regular 8 film is the same size as 16 mm film, and the sprocket
>>>>> holes are also the same size, except there are twice as many
>>>>> sprocket holes and they run along both sides of the film. Also,
>>>>> you cannot just splice it in with 16 mm film necessarily...
>>>>> because there are twice as many sprocket holes, you have to be
>>>>> careful about this. You have to count and make sure that there
>>>>> are an even number of sprocket holes in a strip if you plan on
>>>>> putting more 16 mm film after it. If there are an odd number of
>>>>> holes, the film will not catch in the claw, get torn up and
>>>>> potentially damage your projector; I know from experience!
>>>>>
>>>>> The film is usually sold in 25 foot canisters, although there
>>>>> is stock from Eastern Europe (I think the Czech Republic)
>>>>> called Fomopan that comes in 33 foot rolls. It's not the
>>>>> easiest film to find, but there are plenty of places that have
>>>>> it. Two that I know of off hand because they are the places I
>>>>> buy my film from are Action Camera in San Francisco and Yale
>>>>> Film and Video in Los Angeles.
>>>>>
>>>>> And if you'd like to just see what the film looks like if you
>>>>> leave it unslit, I have some stills from single and multi-
>>>>> projector works I've done with regular 8 film here:
>>>>> http://flickr.com/photos/thedicky/sets/72157608341201326/
>>>>> The only one that is in color, for instance, is a single
>>>>> projection of un-slit regular 8.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Rick Bahto
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
>>>>> <email suppressed> wrote:
>>>>> i agree that you might want to hold on to this rare find. the
>>>>> effect produced by this double-8 camera when projected in 16mm
>>>>> is very cool. and yes, you can project it and cut the footage
>>>>> in with other regular 16mm footage. i had a bolex like this
>>>>> years ago and had to sell it (basically had kids to feed) and
>>>>> to this day, it is the one piece of equipment that i have most
>>>>> regretted parting with. this just might be a blessing in
>>>>> disguise, Miriam.
>>>>>
>>>>> enjoy today...
>>>>>
>>>>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
>>>>> Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
>>>>>
>>>>> www.solislandmediaworks.com
>>>>> www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
>>>>> http://cinesthesia.blip.tv
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Jorge Lorenzo Flores Garza wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ohh, I guess that's a much better explanation from Mark!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saludos,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jorge L.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:19:59 -0800
>>>>>> From: email suppressed
>>>>>> Subject: Re: HELP
>>>>>> To: email suppressed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miriam,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You indeed purchased a Regular 8 (R8) camera. As you probably
>>>>>> now realize, it takes 16mm film with sprocket holes specific
>>>>>> for use in 8mm cameras. You shoot the roll of 25ft film which
>>>>>> exposes half the frame, turn the film over and shoot another
>>>>>> 25ft. After processing the film is split and spliced together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although I haven't tried this, I'm told you can still project
>>>>>> this film with a standard 16mm projector if you don't have it
>>>>>> split after processing. You would basically see two frames
>>>>>> simultaneously on the screen which may be of interest to you
>>>>>> as a technique. Keep in mind that one frame would be right
>>>>>> side up, while the other would be upside down due to the way
>>>>>> the film goes through the camera. If you want both frames
>>>>>> right side up you would have to shoot the last 25ft with the
>>>>>> camera upside down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you didn't pay much for the camera and it works you might
>>>>>> want to keep it or this technique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: miriam jayne martins sampaio
>>>>>> [mailto:email suppressed]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:00 AM
>>>>>> To: email suppressed
>>>>>> Subject: HELP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I kinda of screwed up when i bought this camera, Quarz 2x8S-1M
>>>>>> FILM MOVIE CAMERA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quarz 2x8S-1M FILM MOVIE CAMERA.
>>>>>> The camera and it's zoom lens was manufactured at KRASNOGORSK
>>>>>> factory in Moscow, USSR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Technical data
>>>>>> Camera Type: movie film, film type: standard 16mm film, frame
>>>>>> size: 4x5.5mm, 12, 18, 24, 36 frames/sec preset, internal
>>>>>> light meter, single frame shooting, spring drive motor,
>>>>>> intershangeable lenses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lens: Jupiter-24M 1.9/12.5
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me say first that i know nothing about 16mm camera's and
>>>>>> was super excited to find this one which seemed quite compact
>>>>>> and a good reasonable price. i purchased it from from ebay.
>>>>>> before purchasing it did show it to a friend who knows about
>>>>>> camera's and he too assumed it was 16mm but its NOT!! it takes
>>>>>> 16mm but its actually an 8mm?!?! goddess help me!
>>>>>> does anyone know if it takes any kind of 16mm film??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i feel like an idiot but....
>>>>>> i have not received it and i did speak with the seller about
>>>>>> this but....
>>>>>> the ad was a bit misleading but ultimately it was my fault. so
>>>>>> know i have a camera that i did not want??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miriam
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got
>>>>>> better.__________________________________________________________
>>>>>> ________ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>>>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> _ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>>>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comparte fotos y videos mientras chateas en Messenger.
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> _ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>>>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________ F
>>> or info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.