From: Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez (email suppressed)
Date: Tue Jun 30 2009 - 16:56:23 PDT
i have to agree with scott. i too think of those source materials
(including even industrial videos and such) as "cinema" once
incorporated as elements of a film...
enjoy today...
Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
www.solislandmediaworks.com
www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
http://cinesthesia.blip.tv
On Jun 30, 2009, at 7:07 PM, Scott MacDonald wrote:
> Hey, Bill,
>
> I think of all that as "cinema" in the broadest sense of the word.
>
> Scott
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:46 PM, William Wees, Dr.
> <email suppressed> wrote:
> Scott--
>
> For an extensive program of screenings at Anthology Film Archives
> in 1993 and an accompanying small book, I came up with "recycled
> images," which I don't think I had seen before. But who knows about
> such things? I'm not sure who turned that into "recycled cinema"--
> you, maybe? The problem with "recycled images"--as it occurred to
> me later--is that it leaves out "recycled sound." The problem with
> "recycled cinema" is that it leaves out non-cinematic sources like
> music videos and all the other stuff that appears on commercial TV.
>
> --Bill
>
> William C. Wees,
>
> Emeritus Professor (McGill University)
>
> Postal address:
>
> Department of Art History and Communication Studies
>
> McGill University
>
> 853 Sherbrooke St. West--Arts W225
>
> Montreal, QC H3A 2T6
>
> Phone: 514 398-4935 Fax: 514 398-7247
> ________________________________
> From: Experimental Film Discussion List
> [email suppressed] On Behalf Of Scott MacDonald
> [email suppressed]
> Sent: June 30, 2009 2:40 PM
> To: email suppressed
> Subject: Re: collage film history
>
> I don't know about the originator of "collage film" or "found
> footage film," but, Bill, I've always thought that you invented
> "recycled cinema." Is that the case?
>
> Scott
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:58 AM, William Wees, Dr.
> <email suppressed>> wrote:
> Hey, Jeanne, I didn't send the original query. If something from
> "Dr. Wees" appeared in this thread, I missed it (and it was
> probably sent by "Tony Conrad" in any case).
>
> P. Adams Sitney, writing about Bruce Conner in Visionary Film)
> offers what I think is a good way to think about collage/montage:
> "The natural irony of the collage film, which calls attention to
> the fact that each element quoted in the new synthesis was once
> part of another whole, thereby underlining its presence as a piece
> of film, creates a distance between the image depicted and our
> experience of it. Montage is the mediator of collage."
>
>
> The original query, if I remember correctly, concerned when the
> term "collage film" was first used and by whom. I don't know, but
> certainly it was in use in the 1960s when I first saw the collage
> films of Conner, Stan Vanderbeek, Arthur Lipsett and others. By the
> late 1980s, of course, "collage films" had been pretty well
> subsumed under the broader category of "found-footage films." I
> have no idea when that term was first used or by whom. Any guesses?
>
> --Bill
>
> William C. Wees,
>
> Emeritus Professor (McGill University)
>
> Postal address:
>
> Department of Art History and Communication Studies
>
> McGill University
>
> 853 Sherbrooke St. West--Arts W225
>
> Montreal, QC H3A 2T6
>
> Phone: 514 398-4935 Fax: 514 398-7247
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Experimental Film Discussion List
> [mailto:email suppressed
> >] On Behalf Of Jeanne LIOTTA
> Sent: June 30, 2009 11:00 AM
> To: email suppressed>
> Subject: Re: collage film history
>
> I love this thread!
>
> Agreed Esperanza, 'breed'. But re: the original query <Dr. Wees ,
> on historical differences between cinematic montage and cinematic
> collage> it seems the ways in which the terms are different might
> be a richer vein to mine than the ways in which they are similar.
>
> for ex: the excellent term 'montage' gets you higher, due to it's
> etymology already embedded with labor and furthering the
> revolutionary cause of artist-as-worker, re our good friend
> Eisenstein as beautifully cited by Esperanza.
>
> Not that any of this fits the "solid academic reference" called for.
>
> I for one am somewhat nervous about 'firsts' since I was properly
> admonished by Tom Gunning once after giving a talk on J.Cornell
> where I referred to Rose Hobart as the first intentional cinematic
> collage, and he gently suggested I amend that to, "perhaps among
> the first". Duly noted.
>
> Am reminded of this by Bruce C's post in discussing the Hungarian
> artist heretofore unknown to me, it never ends...
>
> I dont understand the part about how time is linear in film.
> ?
> I really thought it was just the opposite--space is linear, time
> isn't.
>
> your comrade and idiosyncratic scholar
> jeanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.jeanneliotta.net<http://www.jeanneliotta.net>
> www.youtube.com/zerojeanli<http://www.youtube.com/zerojeanli>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>>.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>>.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.