From: Lundgren (email suppressed)
Date: Thu Aug 06 2009 - 11:03:41 PDT
I'm not trying to absolve Fox.
I'm just saying that ending the analysis of the problem with Fox is thinking
like the Fox-audience.
Bjorn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Hyman" <email suppressed>
To: <email suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Murdoch's Falsehoods [Was: Kuchar/McDowell screen on Fox News!]
> You're missing one key element here Bjorn. The starting point.
> That FOX shows the clip at all.
> FOX consciously chooses to attack art and initiates those attacks, without
> there being any public demand or outrage prior to it. Sure there are lots
> of people who allow Fox to exist, but Fox creates paths & stories for them
> to target their otherwise unresolved frustrations. And Fox does so by
> deliberately creating stories to appeal to the worst in people.
>
> Of course there has been evil & stupidity in the past, and there will in
> the
> future.
>
> But that doesn't absolve Fox of its wrong doing.
>
>
> On 8/6/09 9:46 AM, "Lundgren" <email suppressed> wrote:
>
>> It's just what the Fox audience would say to you.
>>
>> So basically you and the Fox audience is the same.
>>
>> It just _happens_ to be that you're more on the right side. (And the
>> accidental side of this is very important!)
>>
>> But the absence of deeper analysis is just the same.
>>
>> Let's compare:
>>
>> Fox audience watches the concerned clip.
>>
>> Reaction: NEA IS THE ENEMY.
>>
>> You watch the concerned clip.
>>
>> Reaction: FOX IS THE ENEMY.
>>
>> Again: Did the world change 1996? Seriously?
>>
>> Go deeper! Don't be like the Fox audience.
>>
>> Bjorn
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tony Conrad" <email suppressed>
>> To: <email suppressed>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: Murdoch's Falsehoods [Was: Kuchar/McDowell screen on Fox
>> News!]
>>
>>
>>> Not worth further comment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu 08/06/09 11:58 AM , Lundgren email suppressed sent:
>>>> Stupidity has existed probably since man came along. (It's only fair
>>>> they
>>>> should have their enjoyment. ;)
>>>>
>>>> We see what we want to see.
>>>> Fox will certainly influence some, and others will see through it and
>>>> develop because of the discovery of their lies.
>>>> But Fox didn't create it's audience, stupidity was already born and
>>>> very
>>>> much alive.
>>>>
>>>> That is: Fox is the chicken. But the eggs were already present.
>>>>
>>>> Fox isn't the hell itself. The root of the problem is alas elsewhere.
>>>> It's
>>>> in the society itself, and amongst the people. It is the system, and
>>>> the
>>>> individuals.
>>>>
>>>> And to pin-point Fox as THE ENEMY and the source of all evil is to make
>>>> a
>>>> very very poor analysis.
>>>>
>>>> Bjorn
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jerry Tartaglia" email suppressed>To:
>>>> email suppressed>Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:31 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Murdoch's Falsehoods [Was: Kuchar/McDowell screen on Fox
>>>> News!]
>>>>
>>>>> Bjorn,
>>>>>
>>>>> I regret to inform you that the eggs which you
>>>> had anticipated would hatch > into a utopian world, replete with
>>>> tolerance and
>>>> congenial outcomes, have > been smashed. Unfortunately, they have been
>>>> used to create a > world-omelette of moving image media that are
>>>> under the direct control of > several chefs who have no interest in
>>>> healthy
>>>> food preparation nor concern > for other peoples' dietary needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I would favor the word
>>>> "adversary" over the word "enemy," I do > not believe that the
>>>> "mind-only
>>>> school" of philosophy offers any practical > remedy for the suffering
>>>> that is
>>> inflicted on
>>>> the world by the Barbarians > among us. If I am wrong, then, please
>>>> show
>>>> me
>>>> the chickens!!>
>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Tartaglia
>>>>> http://www.jerry501.com>
>>>>> "To hear with eyes belongs to love's fine
>>>> wit."(Sonnet 23)>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Lundgren" email suppressed>>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:16
>>>> AM> Subject: Re: Murdoch's Falsehoods [Was:
>>>> Kuchar/McDowell screen on Fox > News!]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to learn to turn the other check.
>>>> ;)>>
>>>>>> Fox isn't really a problem. If everyone
>>>> reacted the way I guess most >> Frameworkers do to that clip (okay I
>>>> laughed
>>>> - I don't care anymore, it's >> just fun) then there'd be no problem
>>>> and
>>>> there'd be no Fox.>>
>>>>>> You see, I really think the eggS came
>>>> first.>>
>>>>>> Bjorn Lundgren
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Tony Conrad" FALO.EDU>>> To: email suppressed>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 3:26
>>>> AM>> Subject: Re: Murdoch's Falsehoods [Was:
>>>> Kuchar/McDowell screen on Fox >> News!]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wake up!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Gregg Biermann. Fox is the
>>>> ENEMY; the ENEMY; the ENEMY.>>>
>>>>>>> Not that your slushy liberalism is going
>>>> to have any effect (except >>> stiffening the spines of some of us who
>>>> see things more clearly), but >>> your remarks certainly represent the
>>>> final disintegration of>>> "experimental" into complete
>>>> meaninglessness. "Art" as well, it >>> appears.........
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----t0ny
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed 08/05/09 1:47 PM , Lundgren 50lundgr
>>>> email suppressed sent:>>>> I think the clip is an experimental
>>>> film in it's own sense.>>>>
>>>>>>>> We should always have a wide
>>>> definition of art, and we should try to>>>> interprete any work of art
>>>> as
>>>> a good
>>>> work of art.>>>>
>>>>>>>> Therefore I see no other thing to do
>>>> than to consider this a really >>>> great
>>>>>>>> experimental satire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bj�¶rn
>>>> Lundgren>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Scott Stark"
>>>> BEAM.NET>To: RA
>>>> email suppressed>Sent: >>>> Monday, August 03, 2009 9:15
>>>> PM>>>> Subject: Re: Murdoch's Falsehoods
>>>> [Was: Kuchar/McDowell screen on Fox>>>> News!]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 06:19 PM 8/2/2009 -0700,
>>>> Chuck Kleinhans>>>> wrote:>
>>>>>>>>>> They also seem to not grasp
>>>> the fact that the>>>> film was made in 1975 and is
>>>>>> not being funded by the NEA.>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> Actually I think they were very
>>>> carefully>>>> creating this confusion. If you >
>>>> listen closely they do state that the >>>> funding
>>>>>>>> went to the "theater" that
>>>>> was planning to show the film, not the >>>> film
>>>>>>>> itself, but that goes by very >
>>>> quickly and they made sure to blur that>>>> distinction with the
>>>> "shocking" > imagery and voice-over details.>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> I think the Fox team is
>>>> actually very smart and>>>> crafty, and has a lot of > fun
>>>> making stuff up.>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________> For
>>>>>>>> info on FrameWorks, contact Pip
>>>> Chodorov at>>>> om>.>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________>>>>
>>>> For info
>>> on FrameWorks, contact Pip
>>>> Chodorov at om>.>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________>>>
>>>> For
>>>> info
>>> on FrameWorks, contact Pip
>>>> Chodorov at om>.>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________>>
>>>> For
>>>> info
>>> on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov
>>>> at om>.>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________> For
>>>> info on
>>> FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>> om>.>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at om>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.